Curse

Ozric · Apr 23, 2007, 09:53 PM // 21:53

When Guild Wars was new, and every mission felt epic, many players felt a sense of awe once they made it to the desert and started to unravel it's mysteries. It was as if we'd entered into some lost holy land.

There was a feeling of suspense and underlying trepidation as we accomplished each of the trials and was returned to Augury Rock, a reminder of what lay ahead,.. a meeting with a much more powerful entity than yourself, that knew all the skills you knew.

The Doppleganger.

When I first faced him, I was certain that he'd used skills against me that I'd never seen nor heard of. Back then I was a noob, but then we all were. It was less than a month since Guild Wars hit the shelves. My first character, a Necromancer, was investing his attribute points into Death magic though the term 'minion master' had yet to be well known, my biggest nuke was Deathly Swarm. Though I was concentrating in Death magic I had, however, picked up many interesting looking skills as I passed through the game, but had never used them as they were out of my line of magic.

Dopple showed me what I had been missing, and continued to show me in slight variations (if I recall correctly) over and over with those meeting always leaving me in a heap on his lair's floor. I cursed, I hit my monitor, I paced my office, I begged for help in Augury Rock for clues with how to defeat this cursed, flaming madman in the mesa across the lake. I had to face Dopple probably around 20 times before I finally toppled him. Of course I had to re-allocate some attribute points to do so, not a very easy proposition back then.

But I'd have him back the way he was then. The Dopple taught me more about the skills I had than anything I'd seen in the game yet. After that, I went from Death to Curses, and after the removal of the Attribute Point Refund system, I became a multi-faceted Necro. Something that I've made it a point to be in all my characters.

I have the pre-nerf Doppleganger to thank for that.

For Hard Mode, I submit to revert Doppleganger to his pre-nerf state. Let him choose the skills the character facing him knows and stop the exploitations. Dopple just might teach you something.

legion_rat · Apr 23, 2007, 11:05 PM // 23:05

/signed

to many ways to cheat otherwise. Rangers and rits have it easiest. Take a pet and all pet skills, you will win everytime. OR vengful weapon. Yeah I would like to see the dopple in the original form. Of course with my sin having over 100 elites and god knows how many other skills that could be bad on me so let me beat him first before we do :P

~the rat~

MithranArkanere · Apr 23, 2007, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Well... it was aesomely easy in hard mode...

After finishing The Great Wall (killed once by profesional 100 meter sprinter Charr )... I though: "wow... how would Augury Rock be...?"

I just used a variation of the infamous E/A Solo Green Farmer build.
He lasted eight seconds. Eight.

Disappointing.

Curse You · Apr 23, 2007, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Have you faced the Doppelganger in hard mode with an Elementalist? It's one of the hardest fights you can get. It took me a good number of tries before I was able to kill it without it first killing me with that Uber Spear.

The Hard Mode Doppel can still be quite challenging to players who don't know enough about their chosen profession, even when they can choose the skills.

I myself, and possibly you as well, know a lot about the professions I play as, and know what skills work best for a 1 on 1 fight. Also, I know most of the tricks about the Doppel, which gave me an extra edge.

Crimso · Apr 24, 2007, 07:06 PM // 19:06

/Singed

The hard mode doppleganger can be a joke to beat in both modes(especially with the hard mode boosts) with a necro sac build(cultists fervour,awaken the blood,dark pact, enfeeble and order of pain) he can kill him self(not totally sometimes he leaves himself with low enough health for his AI to stop him from dieing).

The pre-nerf version should be used instead(or just in hard-mode).

Steps Ascending · Apr 24, 2007, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Excuse my ignorance.
How was the doppleganger nerfed compared to the begining.

Thomas.knbk · Apr 24, 2007, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps Ascending

Excuse my ignorance.
How was the doppleganger nerfed compared to the begining.

He used to choose from all the skills you had ever learned
Now he just has the same bar you have.

I just defeated my dopple in 'hard' mode with my warrior. All you really have to do with any class is change your secondary to rit, and bring Vengeful Weapon and Weapon of Remedy. Energy wasn't even a problem with Glad's armor and a +5 energy axe.

I found the dopple very disappointing in Hard Mode, because it was one of the things I really looked forward to. (not to say hard mode is disappointing, hell, it's the best update E V E R, just this particular piece of it)

So, I'll totally /SIGN this.

Darkpower Alchemist · Apr 24, 2007, 08:06 PM // 20:06

The doppleganger was never hard for a swordsman. Riposte/Deadly Riposte and Final Thrust...dopple fall down, go BOOM!

Ele was a challenge, but my monk was a cake walk. I just used the 55 build. How will it stack up against my Derv or sin. I doubt that it will be able to do what I would like to see. Be a challenge.

I say that the doppleganger should live up to its name. Let it morph and all that jazz. Change weapons, be as tough and as versatile as your character.

Make it hard, damn it!!!

MirageMaster · Apr 24, 2007, 09:27 PM // 21:27

The biggest exploit is that he attacks when you dont.Make him see this and not attack as well.. there goes the bonus lol.

FelixCarter · Apr 24, 2007, 09:44 PM // 21:44

I miss the old Dopple. Bring him/her back and I'll finally have something to do when I'm bored other than farming.

I beat the Dopple on Hard Mode with [skill]Empathy[/skill]. That's it. No other skills. I just slapped it on her and ran back and forth. Ended up killing herself in a couple of seconds.

While I was happy I beat her, I was disappointed in how easy it was.

It is a mission. It should take 5-30 minutes to do like any other mission. Make players sit and think about what they can use. Make them think about their own weaknesses. Make them understand that in order to know their characters 100%, they must defeat themselves.

Curse You · Apr 24, 2007, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by FelixCarter

It is a mission. It should take 5-30 minutes to do like any other mission. Make players sit and think about what they can use. Make them think about their own weaknesses. Make them understand that in order to know their characters 100%, they must defeat themselves.

Um, so I guess the fact that the bonus requires you to kill your Doppel in under 2 minutes means nothing? This isn't a long mission. It's meant to be one fight, almost like Imperial Sanctum.

MithranArkanere · Apr 24, 2007, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Two minutes is something, 8 seconds is something else.

I was one of the first one whining about DoA difficulty.

But this is Hard Mode.
It's supposed to be Hard!

I do like hard mode. It's somehow a challegen, it may be slower than normal, but makes old areas get new life. That's the better of hard mode.
Giving a reason to go to The Falls or Twin Serpent Lakes other than the Cartographer or some lost green items.

viper11025 · Apr 24, 2007, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Doppels way to easy!Unless your a ele.
/signed

legion_rat · Apr 25, 2007, 12:17 AM // 00:17

I always wondered though how the dopple wields an axe or bow and can use dagger or scythe (or spear for that matter) skills. Cause if my sin has an axe my better builds go right to hell. I would like to see the doppleganger use the weapons of your proffession.

~the rat~

Zenocided · Apr 27, 2007, 12:59 PM // 12:59

I'm not sure if I'd like to have the doppel actually choose from the skills I've earned, it could mean a lot harder fight for those that have unlocked almost everything in their arsenal to be used against them.

I would put forward that in HARD MODE, the doppel should at least be smart enough not to kill himself with mes hexs so easily. Its a bit disappointing to see people killing him in under 10s because he's so dumb. I beat him using purely prophecy skills because I knew my elementalist skills inside and out. Thats what defeating a doppel should entail. Actually delving into your own skills to find an skill that you would use against yourself.

Aera · Apr 27, 2007, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Indeed.

I went W/R, equipped 4 useless spirits, 4 attack skills. By the the time he had his last spirit up, he was already dead.

If ANYONE requires proper AI, it's that guy.

Swampgirl Inez · Apr 27, 2007, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Please do not use this thread for discussions on "how to beat the Doppleganger". There are plenty of threads like that elsewhere. Please stay on topic of the Doppleganger in Hard Mode.

Series · Apr 27, 2007, 03:57 PM // 15:57

/signed! Good idea. It should be a challenge.

SotiCoto · Apr 27, 2007, 04:53 PM // 16:53

I got Masters the first time I ever fought the Doppleganger, without knowing how he worked nor what he did (post-nerf, obviously) ..... because I actually did the "stupid" thing of accidentally charging in to face him with my prototype running build.... My Shadow Form build... -_-;
O'course I didn't use it... and he did... and I wondered why he was invincible for a while... but when his health dropped down into the nether-regions, I just smacked him one and he practically bounced as he hit the ground. Hehehe!

Oh... and /NotSigned.

The last thing I want to do is face the 0ld-sk00l Doppelganger with my Skill Hunter Primary Char (toting every Elite Skill in Cantha and Tyria, many from Elona and a huge chunk of non-elites besides)...
Who cares if the bastard is easy..... If you want a challenge, go fight Rotscale!